11 Comments
User's avatar
Vivian Baruch's avatar

Thanks for your input Thomas. I recommend you send your perspective to Roger Pielke Jr himself as he's far more equipped than I am to address your points.

Expand full comment
Thomas L. Hutcheson's avatar

I did. This was for the "benefit" of people who saw your post but not his. :)

Expand full comment
User's avatar
Comment deleted
Jun 30, 2024
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
Anonymous Skimmer's avatar

You're nitpicking, and ignoring the scenario I postulated *with respect to ice*. You're also ignoring the fact that there is documented counter-evidence on our own Moon.

Expand full comment
Anonymous Skimmer's avatar

Everything I'm posting is ultimately a discussion of the model of the Earth being a snowball with an average surface temperature of 255 K. As a non-physicist do I think the Earth would snowball with a lack of atmosphere? (note that "lack" means a lack of our current atmosphere, it's of course impossible to prevent a planet or satellite from maintaining *any* atmosphere - even the comets have one). Yes, I think it probably would for the reasons already mentioned.

Expand full comment
Anonymous Skimmer's avatar

And sure, I don't know exactly what the surface temperature would be. But it seems obvious that the 255 K figure is meant as a model baseline which the addition of various atmospheric factors adjusts. Also obvious that the Moon's day length has to have a pronounced effect on its average daylight and nighttime temperature. Anyone living in a home with a slab foundation knows that rock retains, and radiates, heat for hours after the sun has set.

Expand full comment
User's avatar
Comment deleted
Jun 14, 2024
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
Thomas L. Hutcheson's avatar

Could you translate this into model terms? Do you mean that the increased concentration of CO@ am methane in the atmosphere does not (significantly?) lead to higher atmospheric and ocean temperatures? Or that any changes that are produced are negligible or positive?

Expand full comment
User's avatar
Comment deleted
Jun 15, 2024
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
Thomas L. Hutcheson's avatar

You seem (perhaps I just do not understand you) to be to saying there are just two outcomes: catastrophic warming and snowball earth. I'm trying to understand your point wrt a increase of much less than 400 ppm and much more than400 ppm More heating or not? Harm or not?

Expand full comment
User's avatar
Comment deleted
Jun 15, 2024
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
Thomas L. Hutcheson's avatar

I understand your POV. Thanks

Expand full comment
Anonymous Skimmer's avatar

1) The 255 K is an average.

2) It takes the moon about a month for its day to occur. This allows a long period of time for the heat of the sun to both absorb, and to radiate away.

3) We can't go back to the beginning, so starting now, with sufficient water in the atmosphere and in the oceans and et cetera, if the Earth lost its atmosphere this would encourage ice formation (I'm not an expert, this is an assumption on my part). The albedo of this ice would reflect more energy away from the Earth, thus encouraging more ice formation, and you'd probably end up with a snowball.

Expand full comment
User's avatar
Comment deleted
Jun 30, 2024
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
Thomas L. Hutcheson's avatar

No disagreement. :)

Expand full comment
Anonymous Skimmer's avatar

We already know this is false with respect to the moon, and the Earth is far larger, with a much larger gravitational pull, and a lot more liquid hydrogen, oxygen, and dihydrogen monoxide internally that can seep to the surface regardless of the atmosphere.

Would you seriously expect the entirety of Earth's water to sublimate into space tomorrow if the atmosphere disappeared?

https://moon.nasa.gov/news/59/ice-confirmed-at-the-moons-poles/

Expand full comment